Bob Jones and the Kansas City Prophets
I first met Bob Jones in the mid 1970's, but the first major prophetic word I heard him give was at the debriefing meeting held by Derek Prince after the '77 Charismatic Renewal Conference. Derek was going over the Conference and talking about where we were going. It was then that Bob gave a word about Kansas City. That it had just gone through seven fat years and was about to enter its lean years. Our church, Agape Fellowship, disbanded a few years after that and Mike Bickle, now of IHOPKC, took its place in the Grandview, MO/Greater Kansas City area.
Of the other two men in the above picture. I never met Paul Cain. The only contact I had with John Paul Jackson was when he came into a restaurant where Bernard Wallace and I were eating. I asked Bernard if that was John Paul Jackson because the Lord has given me a word for him. I went over to where he was seated by himself and said, "the Lord has given me a word for you and He says you will know what to do. The word is you are in the wrong town at the wrong time."
So my experience with the Kansas City prophets was with Bob Jones over about a 15 year period.
Meetings at Bob's house
Matt Schwartz or Bernard Wallace or all three of us would spend time at Bob's house in the 1980's. Bob and the Kansas City prophets were in and out of favor and we would talk about why. We would talk about Bob's visits to the 2nd heaven and I would always say don't linger, it is the danger zone. Or Bob would talk about where the Spirit had taken him. I remember one time Bob telling Matt and I that he had just returned from seeing the ashes of the Red Heifer in a cave in the Qumran region of Israel.
Often times are meetings became contentious and Bob's wife, Viola, would bring us ice cream. I was often accused of stirring up the conversation just to get the ice cream.
Bob's prophetic words for me
Bob's first word for me was in the late '70s. He asked me if the story of Joseph meant anything to me. I said "no, do not have a clue what it means, do you know?" Bob said "yes." I said, "will you tell me?" Bob said "no, you will have to find out for yourself."
Bob's second word for me was right before we moved Matt Schwartz to Dallas in December of 1985. He said he saw Agape Fellowship, our old church, on a slap in the morgue with a sheet over it. The right hand stuck out below the sheet and the little finger moved. Bob said, "Rick, you are that little finger."
In 1985 I decided to start teaching my 1973 message on the restoration of the apostles and prophets. When Bob heard it, or should I say reheard it, he asked if I would teach it to AJ Rowden at Evangelistic Center Church in Kansas City. AJ had been instrumental in opening the doors for Derek Prince and others to minister in Kansas City.
After the message and pursuant questions, Bob and AJ decided that I was an apostle and that they should anoint and pray for me and send me out from Kansas City. I thought as they were praying, this is sure one way for Bob to get rid of me.
They told me that during my ministry, the blind would see, the lame walk, the deaf hear, and the dead raised (things we had seen with Derek Prince and our time at Agape in the '70s). They said many other kind words and then sent me out. As I stepped out of AJ's church into the sunlight, the Holy Spirit said to me, "Rick, all boats rise at high tide. Don't get too excited. I'm pouring out my Spirit on all my sons and daughters and as Jesus said, "greater works than these shall you do; because I go unto my Father."
I want to be clear. I'm not claiming to be an apostle or a prophet. The word from Bob is not the only word I've received over the years regarding an apostolic position, but words from man do not make it so.
My word for prophets & prophecy
In the 1970s, as our fellowship grew, more and more people were giving prophetic words in our Sunday service. There were three of us charged with judging these words. Even the Bob Jones' were subject to this process.
My message to Bob, the prophets, those who have visions and/or dreams, or those that prophesy is this, "just tell me exactly what you heard or saw. Nothing more, nothing less. Do not change a word, add a word, or leave a word out." Then we can talk about what the word means. If the word is "36, 42, red dog, blue" then that is what you say. If you are trying to make the word make sense, then the rest of us are judging what you think, not what the Lord said. The power is in the Word.
Bible translators have a tendency to add words. They believe they do it for the sake of clarification. They also do it from their own world view often times changing the original meaning. Example: John 1:17, “The law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.” There is no “but” there. Adding one gives an inaccurate meaning to the sentence. It give credence to the false narrative held by many Christians that Jesus came to do away with Torah, by fulfilling Torah. Nothing could be further from the truth. Few seem to grasp that Jesus’ commandments are Torah.
Bob Jones' Angel Emma - Angel of the Prophetic or Demon from Satan?
It is not my intention to trash Bob Jones, Todd Bentley or anyone else. It is hard to judge actions without sounding like we are attacking the man. But if we don't discuss what has gone wrong, then we leave the body of Christ open to deception and error.
Sometime around 1985 was when Bob Jones first started talking to Bernard Wallace and me about the angel Emma. As he told the story, I said, "Bob, you've picked up a pet demon. You are spiritually spending too much time in the 2nd heaven."
The following statement is by Todd Bentley. It shows the perversion that became Todd Bentley's ministry.
Now let me talk about an angelic experience with Emma. Twice Bob Jones asked me about this angel that was in Kansas City in 1980: "Todd, have you ever seen the angel by the name of Emma?" He asked me as if he expected that this angel was appearing to me. Surprised, I said, "Bob, who is Emma?" He told me that Emma was the angel that helped birth and start the whole prophetic movement in Kansas City in the 1980s. She was a mothering-type angel that helped nurture the prophetic as it broke out. Within a few weeks of Bob asking me about Emma, I was in a service in Beulah, North Dakota. In the middle of the service I was in conversation with Ivan and another person when in walks Emma. As I stared at the angel with open eyes, the Lord said, "Here's Emma." I'm not kidding. She floated a couple of inches off the floor. It was almost like Kathryn Khulman in those old videos when she wore a white dress and looked like she was gliding across the platform. Emma appeared beautiful and young-about 22 years old-but she was old at the same time. She seemed to carry the wisdom, virtue and grace of Proverbs 31 on her life.
She glided into the room, emitting brilliant light and colors. Emma carried these bags and began pulling gold out of them. Then, as she walked up and down the aisles of the church, she began putting gold dust on people. "God, what is happening?" I asked. The Lord answered: "She is releasing the gold, which is both the revelation and the financial breakthrough that I am bringing into this church. I want you to prophecy that Emma showed up in this service-the same angel that appeared in Kansas city-as a sign that I am endorsing and releasing a prophetic spirit in the church." See, when angels come, they always come for a reason; we need to actually ask God what the purpose is. Within three weeks of that visitation, the church had given me the biggest offering I had ever received to that point in my ministry. Thousands of dollars! Thousands! Even though the entire community consisted of only three thousand people, weeks after I left the church the pastor testified that the church offerings had either doubled or tripled.
During this visitation the pastor's wife (it was an AOG church) got totally whacked by the Holy Ghost- she began running around barking like a dog or squawking like a chicken as a powerful prophetic spirit came on her. Also, as this prophetic anointing came on her, she started getting phone numbers of complete strangers and calling them up on the telephone and prophesying over them. She would tell them that God gave her their telephone number and then would give them words of knowledge. Complete strangers. Then angels started showing up in the church.